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Talk:Riven/@comment-33536623-20140127122040/@comment-11149612-20140201232703
Mabye I haven't played Riven enough to have a right to say anything here, but I feel that Riven doesn't have any straight-out counters. This may be the case with plenty of champs, but Riven's worst nightmare is getting shoved out of laning phase. Falling out of farm/levels is probably the best counter to her. With Pantine-On free this week, I've managed to get shoved out of top-lane every single game I've fought against him (probably because I wasn't play safe enough, stupid me). He just outpokes you (and yes, his Q can cooldown faster than your E, if you don't level E first), and outsustains you (Riven has a lowered HP regen to compensate for her E, don't know if that's been updated), so it's pretty easy to get shoved out if you're not careful. Regarding Garen as a potential counter to Riven, my short answer is No, and my longer answer is Noooo. Again, not the best, expert pro Riven here, but I've laned against Garen enough to say that Riven will kick his face in with an Ionian Boot-clad foot. At level 1, I level E first (no reason to trade at level 1 for me, so scratch Q until 2), meaning no matter what Garen levels (usually Q or E, god forbid W first), Riven can just use any of her skills to counter it (I believe that was argued somewhere), and that already allows Riven to survive early laning, which is all she needs. At later points, a Tank Garen will still lose against Riven, who just about always builts a Brutalizer > B. Cleaver or a L. Whisper. Editing: Even with his Q silence (pre and post nerf), Garen can't cut Riven's combo. At all. Riven has a 4 second timer between each set of Broken Wings, and always spends about a second using an auto-attack to make use for her EXTREMELY lethal passive (which personally, hauls most of her damage in 1v1 trading). My personal preference of attack combo for Riven (which also leaves me just about dead if they don't die) is E > W > AA x2 > Q > AA > Q > AA > Q > AA. With a 1.5 second silence, or a 2.25 second silence, or even a 2.5 second silence, all Garen does is ENCOURAGE Riven to spend her passive stacks and beat your face in, because 4 seconds is greater than 1.5 seconds, or 2.25, or 2.5, whatever. In other words, never feed Riven if you want to live. Early-game bullies are the best way to go, not tanks. So take someone like Pantine-On, or Croco-ton. Garen will scream "DEMACIAAAAAAA" and that's 'bout it. Editing in a very small note: StarSaviour, I'm in no means trying to insult you, but the choice of words and approaches to response to feel like you're trying to attack someone. I'm aware it's part of your writing and debate style, (I honestly enjoy reading the amount of sass you have, no need to change it, by all means), which is probably why people always feel like you're beating on them and attacking them. If you care, cut down a bit, but if you don't (which I don't, and I suppose you don't either, because you shouldn't), stay the way you are. Great arguments on mathematical side, they actually help me out a bit.